NFL 2007 Season Week 5 Picks

	Alex - 3619 Posts 10/03/2007 @ 09:55:15 PM
Romo is hilarious.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - Two raw eggs in the morning 10/04/2007 @ 11:32:26 AM
Go LIONS!!!!!!!!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 10/04/2007 @ 11:47:59 AM
I've pretty much always been a Lions well-wisher. Welcome to the can Rufio.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated 10/04/2007 @ 12:32:41 PM
I imagine it would be hard for a Vikings fan to watch the Cowboys and not be envious. Along those same lines, I set lineups for 5 fantasy teams last night and didn't realize until just now that the Vikings have a bye this week!		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i 10/04/2007 @ 12:34:09 PM
You do, of course, realize that the Cowboys are infinitely better than the Packers, yes?		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 3 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/04/2007 @ 01:02:52 PM
I'm not sure if the Cowboys have an infinite amount of betterness , but they probably have a team of higher quality overall. And, the Packers play the Cowboys this year, so we really won't need to debate. edit: Also, according to the power rankings on ESPN, Foxsports, and CBSsportsline, the Cowboys are only 1 better than the Packers, which obviously isn't that much of a difference.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Scott perfected this at 10/04/2007 1:08:30 pm

	Jeremy - No one's gay for Moleman 10/04/2007 @ 01:09:01 PM
The better team does win every week. That's why the transitive property is so easy to apply to the sports world.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy perfected this at 10/04/2007 1:13:13 pm

	jthompto 10/04/2007 @ 07:53:32 PM
the cowboys are better, they would have clobbered a team like the vikings instead of barely hanging on to win.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 07:23:26 AM
To be fair, I think the Packers-Viking game was one of those game discussed earlier where the final score really doesn't reflect how close the game actually was. Of course, because I'm talking about the Packers I'm sure I'll be accused of being homerish, but the game was not as close as the 7-point margin indicated. That said, I don't completely disagree with jthompto's first part of the comment that the Cowboys are better.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Scott messed with this at 10/05/2007 7:23:50 am

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 08:17:08 AM
You're right, that 7 point margin should have been closed by the fumble return TD the refs took off the board. (Also, in all seriousness, the Packers allowed the Vikings big play after big play, so I don't know why you feel they were beaten more "handily" then 7 points)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto 10/05/2007 @ 08:36:23 AM
Well the game I watched never really got out of hand, the bad fumble call would have tied the game, and even with that the Vikings still ad a chance to tie at the end. I also think the cowboys are better at this point due to the fact that they have a solid running game, unlike Green Bay. But hey, they play on Nov 29 so I guess we will see then.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 08:43:45 AM
Scott Wrote - 10/04/2007 @ 01:02:52 PM I'm not sure if the Cowboys have an infinite amount of betterness , but they probably have a team of higher quality overall. And, the Packers play the Cowboys this year, so we really won't need to debate. How well do you really know Jeremy? Even if the Pack blow out the Cowboys by 56 points there will still be the talk about "Hey, remember that one play where the ref called it wrong? That was the turning point, and you can negate about 49 of those points... therefor they are not better, the Cowboys just got shafted" If not Jeremy, then someone....		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Carlos44ec edited this at 10/05/2007 8:44:42 am

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 08:50:10 AM
Well to be fair the play I'm talking about cost the Vikings 7 points in a 7 point game (not to mention the Packers scored 7 of their own on the drive that should have never been.) Though I still don't think 1 win over another team makes the other team the 'better one' automatically, even with a 56 point margin.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - 219 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 10:36:06 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/04/2007 @ 11:47:59 AM I've pretty much always been a Lions well-wisher. Welcome to the can Rufio. Yep I have always been a lions fan! Although its constant disappointment, i have to stand by them		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - Go Lions!!! 10/05/2007 @ 10:37:12 AM
BTW packers are going to blow this		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 10/05/2007 @ 10:46:26 AM
Micah is a fellow Lions fan, though he hasn't shown his face yet this week.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - 219 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 10:57:15 AM
Alex Wrote - 10/03/2007 @ 09:55:15 PM Romo is hilarious. He really is		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Refactor Mercilessly 10/05/2007 @ 01:08:49 PM
RUFiO1984 Wrote - 10/05/2007 @ 10:37:12 AM BTW packers are going to blow this Since there's no period here I assume I'm supposed to finish the sentence. BTW packers are going to blow this...reeling Bears team out of the water.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - No one's gay for Moleman 10/05/2007 @ 01:19:16 PM
Packers are going to blow this...group of underage girls in their underwear...out of the water.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 01:35:42 PM
Jeremy, what drive never should have been?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 01:38:32 PM
The drive that was continued after the fumble was ruled an incompletion.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Resident Tech Support 10/05/2007 @ 01:42:17 PM
Favre's pump-fake at the 5 yard line? Is that play you are referring to?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Scott messed with this at 10/05/2007 1:45:11 pm

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 01:47:13 PM
The 4th Quarter, second drive. The game could have been 16-16 and ended up 23-9.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 10/05/2007 1:53:33 pm

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 01:59:57 PM
Oh that, yeah. Well, if I remember correctly, the whistle blew immediately, so there was absolutely no way that the call (right or wrong, in this case, the right call ) could even have been reviewed. Also, I think it was the 4th qtr. I'm sure there are lots of calls that that the refs made up that would have given the game to the Vikings. The only one that I could see being argued as an obvious call was the pass interference on the last offensive play for the Vikings. Whatever though, I stand by my thoughts. I never once felt that the Vikings were putting up much of a fight. If they would have given Peterson the ball more than 12 times maybe things would have different. I never would have thought that a former Wisconsin Badgers offensive coordinater would not know what to do with a good running back.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - You had me at "Hello" 10/05/2007 @ 02:04:58 PM
What lost the Vikings the game was the Vikings themselves. They just sucked- except for Adrians 1st half.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 02:10:36 PM
Scott Wrote - 10/05/2007 @ 01:59:57 PM Oh that, yeah. Well, if I remember correctly, the whistle blew immediately, so there was absolutely no way that the call (right or wrong, in this case, the right call ) could even have been reviewed. Also, I think it was the 4th qtr. I'm sure there are lots of calls that that the refs made up that would have given the game to the Vikings. The only one that I could see being argued as an obvious call was the pass interference on the last offensive play for the Vikings. Whatever though, I stand by my thoughts. I never once felt that the Vikings were putting up much of a fight. If they would have given Peterson the ball more than 12 times maybe things would have different. I never would have thought that a former Wisconsin Badgers offensive coordinater would not know what to do with a good running back. Oh, it wasn't reviewable? I stand corrected, it had to be the right call then, I'll withdraw my charge that they screwed up. So when the Vikings were down one score, had the ball to go get those points they needed after the Packers turned the ball over while in "all we have to do is not turn the ball over" mode, and on the ensuing drive the receiver was absolutely hogtied and violated leading to the game icing int bouncing off him on the 30 or so yard line you thought to yourself, "Well we got away with one there, but we were so dominant today that the Vikings were never in the game, so I don't feel we got away with one?" I wish I knew what life looked like through those 'Opportunity meets Preparation' glasses. You do realize the only time the Vikings trailed by even 2 scores was for like 3 minutes after the questionable call, yes? A bulk of the day the Packers weren't even a TD worth ahead.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.
Jeremy screwed with this 2 times, last at 10/05/2007 2:15:38 pm

	Jeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i 10/05/2007 @ 02:32:10 PM
In other words, what other teams' fans do you think get done watching a game where they had to survive both the onside kick and a worst-case-scenario turnover while in "the ONLY thing we can't do is turn it over here" mode. Only then to cling to their one score lead and then think to themselves, "Man, we really kicked some ass today! I wasn't nervous for a second. Why did that other team even bother to show up?" We all know there are close games score-wise that shouldn't have been, but I don't think you can make a rational argument this qualified. Those are the games where a team is up 35-7 and put in their 2nd string D to play prevent for the entirety of the forth quarter allowing a couple meaningless scores.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.
Jeremy messed with this 5 times, last at 10/05/2007 2:47:57 pm

	Scott - On your mark...get set...Terrible! 10/05/2007 @ 09:05:55 PM
Dang, I'm glad the Vikings only play the Packers twice a year. I'll leave it at that.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Alex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 10/05/2007 @ 10:32:27 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/05/2007 @ 02:32:10 PM In other words, what other teams' fans do you think get done watching a game where they had to survive both the onside kick and a worst-case-scenario turnover while in "the ONLY thing we can't do is turn it over here" mode. Only then to cling to their one score lead and then think to themselves, "Man, we really kicked some ass today! I wasn't nervous for a second. Why did that other team even bother to show up?" I bet Notre Dame fans would. If they ever win again! Scott Wrote - 10/05/2007 @ 09:05:55 PM Dang, I'm glad the Vikings only play the Packers twice a year. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, you don't want too many guaranteed wins on the schedule		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - Yeah, and you don't stop, 'caus its 1-8-7 on a ... 10/05/2007 @ 10:39:44 PM
Packers win.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/05/2007 @ 10:58:19 PM
PackOne Wrote - 10/05/2007 @ 10:39:44 PM Packers win. You make a persuasive argument.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Carlos44ec in EC at the moment (Guest) 10/06/2007 @ 02:45:48 AM
so who are blaze king, rufio and orlando? New to the can, or just people I don't recognize?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/06/2007 @ 05:55:21 AM
LeBron James, Rufio is the lost boy for Hook, and Orlando is the guy that played Legalis. I can't believe you don't know that.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - 219 Posts 10/06/2007 @ 08:58:07 AM
yep new here!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 10/06/2007 @ 01:38:14 PM
Packer fans- don't forget to do the click for cans - the Colts are currently winning. http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansVote.aspx		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!? 10/07/2007 @ 03:01:51 PM
RUFiO1984 Wrote - 10/04/2007 @ 11:32:26 AM Go LIONS!!!!!!!! I think you jinxed them.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - 219 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 05:19:26 PM
:*(		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto - 209 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 07:23:10 PM
yay! 3 hours of Al and John worshiping Brett Favre, how exciting! blah Go Bears!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	orlando - 26 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 08:16:01 PM
yeah i'm new to this, but i like it. but for my first week i'm doing dam good.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone! 10/07/2007 @ 08:50:36 PM
ok, literally, the refs do not know how to count. These guys even have HD replay screens!!! I'm sure this won't have much of an effect on the outcome of the game, but how do you not see that 12 guys were on the field when the ball was snapped?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. 10/07/2007 @ 08:53:49 PM
I'm also kinda liking the "Old Tony Romo" comments.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Resident Tech Support 10/07/2007 @ 08:58:26 PM
The Packers easily could have been up about 35-3 that first half. I hope the Bears go through one of their 4th qtr meltdowns that have become regular this year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 08:58:58 PM
How hard is it to count to 12? I mean come on! We should be up like 24-0. Oh well, it's still been an exciting game.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 10/07/2007 @ 08:59:26 PM
Obviously something about the replay system is broke-dick when it can't successfully be used to count players.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 09:15:22 PM
Oh, and what is with the Packer's d-backs fugly shoes?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - What the F@#$ am I being arrested fo? 10/07/2007 @ 09:16:02 PM
"Jon: Buffalo Bill was a cowboy, no?" No		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - On your mark...get set...Terrible! 10/07/2007 @ 09:17:34 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 09:15:22 PM Oh, and what is with the Packer's d-backs fugly shoes? No kidding.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - A Vote for me is a Vote against Terrorism! ...or atleast just wasted. 10/07/2007 @ 09:36:16 PM
How many times have we had 12 men on the field?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - On your mark...get set...Terrible! 10/07/2007 @ 09:37:16 PM
How do the refs have time to count 12 men in real time when they can't count 12 men in slow-motion? Also, how often do you see the 12 men on the field penalty in the NFL, and we've had it twice in this game, once for each team. Crazy.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone! 10/07/2007 @ 09:40:41 PM
I'm not sure what the "A-gap" is, but Madden has mentioned it about 4 times in this game.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 09:41:41 PM
Does that force-out touchdown play bring back any bad memories for anyone?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 09:47:13 PM
I think John Madden likes saying the word Sheboygen. Anyone disagree?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 10:12:28 PM
do the packers run any play that doesn't include a 4 yard dump pass to a running back anymore?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	orlando - 26 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 10:37:16 PM
the packs got 2 minutes to make something happen.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - I hate our freedoms 10/07/2007 @ 10:37:41 PM
Ok, I'll summarize so this still makes sense for posterity sake. GB challenged the spot of the ball on a close first down. The ball was moved back but the Bears got the first down by 3 atoms of pig skin. Why did GB lose the time out? They moved the ball.....and now Al Michaels is talking about this as I type.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	orlando 10/07/2007 @ 10:45:51 PM
NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 10/07/2007 @ 10:47:32 PM
Best refereed game ever. Also some great play calling by the Packers in the 2nd half.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 10:49:28 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 10:37:41 PM Ok, I'll summarize so this still makes sense for posterity sake. GB challenged the spot of the ball on a close first down. The ball was moved back but the Bears got the first down by 3 atoms of pig skin. Why did GB lose the time out? They moved the ball.....and now Al Michaels is talking about this as I type. I guess it was the right ruling since GB had to challenge first down or not and not the spot of the ball that just implied if it was a first down or not. Either way that's a stupid rule. Just a terrible last drive by the Packers. Clearly they had gone to the Denny Green school of time management. Edit: Collinsworth agrees apparently.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 10/07/2007 10:51:13 pm

	Sarah - So's your face 10/07/2007 @ 10:50:32 PM
Those refs should be fired. They're probably the same refs who called the Packer-49er wild card game of '99. We got way too conservative, and by not kicking to Hester we still gave them excellent field position and in return gave ourselves terrible field position when we got the field back.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - As Seen On The Internet 10/07/2007 @ 10:53:58 PM
Yeah I'm not sure "we don't want to punt to Devin so let's just give them the equivalent of a 25 yard return on every punt." is a good way to handle him.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Who controls the past now controls the future 10/07/2007 @ 10:54:58 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 10:49:28 PM I guess it was the right ruling since GB had to challenge first down or not and not the spot of the ball that just implied if it was a first down or not. Either way that's a stupid rule. Just a terrible last drive by the Packers. Clearly they had gone to the Denny Green school of time management. The whole challenge system is moronic in the first place. If all the college games can have automatic replay on every play, you'd think the 14-16 games per week in the NFL could handle it too.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 10:56:25 PM
Terrible job of calling the game by the refs. Terrible job by the Pack focusing on the little things.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 10/07/2007 @ 11:06:26 PM
So just out of curiosity since you all charge that the refs did a terrible job, was there anything other than their counting skills that leads you all to say this, or are these just the knee jerk reactions of every fan every time their team loses?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 10/07/2007 @ 11:07:08 PM
For the record, I'd call the first Jones "fumble" an incomplete pass, he was bobbling it still when it was knocked out. The lining up over center penalty was complete BS. I'm still wondering how that wasn't 12 men on the field, and probably always will be. I had to listen to the first part of the 3rd quarter while driving home, but as far as I can tell the Packers play caller from the 1st half was fired for doing way too good of a job. Favre was very naughty on that pass to Urlacher. Going back to play calling again, they should've taken a shot at the end zone at the end of the first half. And I'm assuming the reason they didn't run some down and outs and slants to the sideline at the end of the game is because they either don' t have any of those in the playbook or um...I can't think of any other reason why you wouldn't run those routes. And finally, they were who we thought they were and we let them off the hook. Wait, one more thing, Driver should never have less than 5 catches.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.
Alex screwed with this at 10/07/2007 11:08:08 pm

	Alex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 10/07/2007 @ 11:13:17 PM
Just for fun I'll add that the Packers had twice as many penalties as the Bears. Maybe they were all valid (besides the one on the field goal) but I wouldn't know because there were about three series in a row that the Packers started with killer holding penalties but they never showed the replay on TV. That always makes me suspicious. Edit: And I would've spotted the ball at the 42.5 not the 42. I'll admit that's probably more affected by my bias than some of these other things, but I still think you could reasonably make the argument that when he his knee hit the ball was at the 42.5. Of course that's assuming that you noticed that his left knee actually lands before his right, but I'm fairly certain that the guy who can't count to 12 didn't notice.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Alex edited this at 10/07/2007 11:19:41 pm

	jthompto 10/07/2007 @ 11:20:26 PM
The one week I pick the packers to win, they lose. I am going to pick them every week now.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!? 10/07/2007 @ 11:21:37 PM
Both of Jones' fumbles were fumbles and that FG penalty was accurate by rule, but as Al and John discussed, the intent in this case and the rule didn't jive. "A Team B player who is within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage at the snap must have his helmet outside the snapper’s shoulder pad." Clearly his helmet, even after he slid over at the last possible second, wasn't clear of the long snapper's shoulder.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Resident Tech Support 10/08/2007 @ 07:27:46 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 11:06:26 PM So just out of curiosity since you all charge that the refs did a terrible job, was there anything other than their counting skills that leads you all to say this, or are these just the knee jerk reactions of every fan every time their team loses? I would gripe about that obscure penalty on the field goal in the first half. The penalty was illegal formation on the defense. The explanation from the announcers was that the defensive lineman cannot line up square to the center to prevent a player from teeing up a defenseless center the instant he moves the ball. First of all, I don't think I've ever seen that called in any game I have ever watched. I'm not saying the rule is dumb, but I've never seen it. That said, the replay of the lineup showed that the d-lineman was not lined up square to the center. The rule apparently says that the helmet must be outside the centers shoulder pads, and the replay showed that it was. That gave the bears a first down and 2 plays later they scored a touchdown (which if the game played out exactly the same without the td, the Packers would have been down only 3 on that last drive. Obviously things would have changed throughout the game though.) Another weird call came in the first half and really did nothing to affect to the outcome because the Bears punted later in the drive anyway. Al Harris was called for a facemask penalty about 3 seconds after the player was tackled. It's not that the ref just called it late, it's that Harris' hand brushed against the facemask well after the player was already down. On one play that resulted in a 9 yard gain, Driver was called for a pass intereference when the replay showed that he was standing by himself while Favre still had the ball in his hand. Illegal contact maybe (I didn't see any other replay except the one that showed Driver alone without the ball yet in there air), but Pass intereference requires the ball be in the air, which it definitely wasn't. Overall, it seemed like the officials were wanting to be somewhere other than the game.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Scott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone! 10/08/2007 @ 07:42:29 AM
All that being said, though, the Packers shot themselves in the foot too many times. Like I've said, a good team would have found a way to overcome some of the bad luck the Packers were getting. The refs had nothing to do with the 3 fumbles. The refs had nothing to do with the fact that the Packers started playing like they were up by 30 in the 2nd half. The Packers have looked pretty good all season, but they definitely have a long way to go.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - "The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower." 10/08/2007 @ 09:38:23 AM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 11:06:26 PM So just out of curiosity since you all charge that the refs did a terrible job, was there anything other than their counting skills that leads you all to say this, or are these just the knee jerk reactions of every fan every time their team loses? We deserved an L. The Pack played OK, but there were definite times where we earned it (how about two stripped balls, same two parties both times? two interceptions?)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 10:17:59 AM
Also don't you almost have to think that somehow, and don't ask me how, the 12 men on the field thing was the correct ruling. Remember that they did originally call it, then the booth said "Eh, were not so sure" and the ref reviewed and agreed. I have to imagine counting is one of the things they can handle. I would put my money on the fact that the Bears got off on another by-the-rule, but stupid, technicality. Like if any part of you is off the field you count as off the field, or something. Edit: Also keep in mind that the penalty on the field goal had a chance to help you. You're always playing with fire as a coach when you opt to take points off the board.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 10/08/2007 10:21:35 am

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 12:58:55 PM
I agree completely with your last comment about the field goal helping. Which is why I'm not THAT upset about the whole thing. The Packers could have stopped them from scoring any points because of it. But that doesn't change the weirdness and probably incorrectness of the call.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 10/08/2007 @ 01:36:12 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 10:17:59 AM Edit: Also keep in mind that the penalty on the field goal had a chance to help you. You're always playing with fire as a coach when you opt to take points off the board. Maybe when you become head coach you can have your special teams always get this penalty on purpose then since it's so helpful.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Broadcast in stunning 1080i 10/08/2007 @ 01:40:14 PM
I just meant to keep in mind that the penalty could have gotten them -3 points rather than 7. Obviously it wasn't a good thing it happened in hindsight, it's just rare that a penalty has as big of a chance to do a good thing for the penalized team. You knew what I meant, don't bust chops for the sake of busting chops.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 01:48:50 PM
sounds like Alex has a case of the Mondays		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Who controls the past now controls the future 10/08/2007 @ 01:57:12 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 01:40:14 PM I just meant to keep in mind that the penalty could have gotten them -3 points rather than 7. Obviously it wasn't a good thing it happened in hindsight, it's just rare that a penalty has as big of a chance to do a good thing for the penalized team. You knew what I meant, don't bust chops for the sake of busting chops. That is rare and that's my point for busting in chops. Giving the Bears a first down on the 13 increased the Bears chance of getting 7 points from 0% to probably like 60%, leaving about a 35% chance to reget the FG, and a 5% chance of turning it over. So it wasn't really equal chances. Maybe if it had been like a 55 yard field goal I'd be more apt to agree.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Who controls the past now controls the future 10/08/2007 @ 01:59:17 PM
Carlos44ec Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 01:48:50 PM sounds like Alex has a case of the Mondays "Mr. Lumbergh told me to talk to payroll and then payroll told me to talk to Mr. Lumbergh and I still haven't received my paycheck and he took my stapler and he never brought it back and then they moved my desk to storage room B and there was garbage on it..."		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 02:03:05 PM
Alex Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 01:57:12 PM Jeremy Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 01:40:14 PM I just meant to keep in mind that the penalty could have gotten them -3 points rather than 7. Obviously it wasn't a good thing it happened in hindsight, it's just rare that a penalty has as big of a chance to do a good thing for the penalized team. You knew what I meant, don't bust chops for the sake of busting chops. That is rare and that's my point for busting in chops. Giving the Bears a first down on the 13 increased the Bears chance of getting 7 points from 0% to probably like 60%, leaving about a 35% chance to reget the FG, and a 5% chance of turning it over. So it wasn't really equal chances. Maybe if it had been like a 55 yard field goal I'd be more apt to agree. So, you're telling me there's a chance?		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Carlos44ec - Since 1980! 10/08/2007 @ 04:24:17 PM
there's a 100% chance that I might watch the game tonight		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 07:14:13 PM
I miss not having cable.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 08:55:19 PM
Rough night for Romo		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 10/08/2007 @ 09:26:42 PM
So, the Bills just challenged the field position of the ball, and they did move the ball back, but it still resulted in a first down. They didn't get charged a timeout. WTF? Did we just challenge the wrong thing last night? (First down vs position of the ball?) Scott- You don't like having cable now because you watch too much TV? I'm confused.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.
Sarah screwed with this at 10/08/2007 9:27:55 pm

	Alex - 3619 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 09:26:47 PM
Alex Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 10:54:58 PM Jeremy Wrote - 10/07/2007 @ 10:49:28 PM I guess it was the right ruling since GB had to challenge first down or not and not the spot of the ball that just implied if it was a first down or not. Either way that's a stupid rule. Just a terrible last drive by the Packers. Clearly they had gone to the Denny Green school of time management. The whole challenge system is moronic in the first place. If all the college games can have automatic replay on every play, you'd think the 14-16 games per week in the NFL could handle it too. So...the Bills can challenge the spot of the ball and not the 1st down and get the spot changed and not lose a timeout, but the Packers can't? I don't get it. Edit: I was too slow. Like the refs from last nights game.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Alex screwed with this at 10/08/2007 9:27:38 pm

	orlando 10/08/2007 @ 10:00:50 PM
im praying the cowboys make something happen in this last quarter.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/08/2007 @ 10:57:08 PM
This Monday night game is simultaneously the best and worst game ever.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 10/08/2007 @ 11:03:48 PM
I concur with Jeremy. I actually feel bad for the Bills.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 10/08/2007 @ 11:06:39 PM
That was one of the most amazing games ever. I hope y'all were watching.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	orlando 10/08/2007 @ 11:12:58 PM
most amazing game ever, worst by tony romo.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 10/08/2007 @ 11:22:32 PM
How funny is it that the Bills may have been better off just letting the Cowboys score the two point conversion?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 07:53:06 AM
Sarah Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 09:26:42 PM So, the Bills just challenged the field position of the ball, and they did move the ball back, but it still resulted in a first down. They didn't get charged a timeout. WTF? Did we just challenge the wrong thing last night? (First down vs position of the ball?) Scott- You don't like having cable now because you watch too much TV? I'm confused. I don't have cable. I guess I should have said "I miss having cable."		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 11:11:53 AM
Stupid Bills.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 11:13:48 AM
I'm pretty sure they sell cable in Florida.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	RUFiO1984 - 219 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 11:16:22 AM
Cowboys pulled that out of their butt! I feel bad for the bills to, they were so excited :*(		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Who controls the past now controls the future 10/09/2007 @ 01:07:11 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 11:22:32 PM How funny is it that the Bills may have been better off just letting the Cowboys score the two point conversion? 0 fun(ny) sir. Once again, I don't really see how this is a logically relevant statement. Although much of what we do here is logically irrelevant. Either way, I find no humor in this.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 01:47:22 PM
Alex Wrote - 10/09/2007 @ 01:07:11 PM Jeremy Wrote - 10/08/2007 @ 11:22:32 PM How funny is it that the Bills may have been better off just letting the Cowboys score the two point conversion? 0 fun(ny) sir. Once again, I don't really see how this is a logically relevant statement. Although much of what we do here is logically irrelevant. Either way, I find no humor in this. Most of what you do here is slightly weird.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 01:48:09 PM
First off, I never meant it was "ha ha" funny. Secondly, had the Cowboys scored the 2 point conversion they wouldn't have kicked the onside kick and there would have been like a 97% chance the game would have gone to overtime, where the Bills had a decent shot at winning, or at least a better shot then the 0% chance of winning after the Cowboys final field goal sailed through.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated 10/09/2007 @ 06:22:40 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/09/2007 @ 01:48:09 PM First off, I never meant it was "ha ha" funny. Secondly, had the Cowboys scored the 2 point conversion they wouldn't have kicked the onside kick and there would have been like a 97% chance the game would have gone to overtime, where the Bills had a decent shot at winning, or at least a better shot then the 0% chance of winning after the Cowboys final field goal sailed through. At best the Bills had a 50% chance to win in overtime. I'm having difficulty finding actual stats, but lets say the Bills had an 80% chance to recover they onside kick + a 10% chance to not get the kick but still win on a missed/never attempted field goal. So there's 2 possible results to the 2 point conversion, once of which leaves the Bills with a 50% chance to win and one of which gives them a conservative 90% chance to win. The fact that they didn't win doesn't change the fact that the 2 point conversion failure was clearly the better outcome for the Bills. The 0% after the field goal doesn't matter, since the result of all plays after the 2 point conversion (result, not choice of play) were completely independant from the 2 point conversion itself, and 90% is greater than 50%. Of course they could've won had the game gone to overtime, but if we're going to ignore a 40% difference in statistical odds then you might as well say maybe the Bills would have been better off going for 2 on their last touchdown and failing, so that they were only up by 7 and then the Cowboys would've just kicked the extra point and then the Bills could've won in overtime.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 10/09/2007 @ 06:29:58 PM
PackOne Wrote - 10/09/2007 @ 01:47:22 PM Most of what you do here is slightly weird. I won't argue with that, even coming from the guy who has a Vanilla Ice quote as his tagline. "Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it."		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children. 10/09/2007 @ 06:30:40 PM
I think you're severely over thinking a fairly simple observation. Obviously any team in that situation should not let the team score, but the end result being what it was they would have been better off in overtime.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 10/09/2007 6:30:59 pm

	Alex - 3619 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 06:37:51 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/09/2007 @ 06:30:40 PM I think you're severely over thinking a fairly simple observation. Obviously any team in that situation should not let the team score, but the end result being what it was they would have been better off in overtime. I think you're under thinking it. Survey says???		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	orlando - 26 Posts 10/09/2007 @ 08:55:04 PM
when can pick our games for week 6?		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children. 10/09/2007 @ 10:06:44 PM
Now? You can click "make your own picks" in the left hand menu or go to the index page and there's a link there. I suppose I may as well just give you a link		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy perfected this at 10/09/2007 10:10:44 pm

	PackOne - No matter how many MC's I eat up ... oh, it's never enough. 10/09/2007 @ 10:46:39 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/09/2007 @ 06:30:40 PM I think you're severely over thinking a fairly simple observation. Obviously any team in that situation should not let the team score, but the end result being what it was they would have been better off in overtime. Mike Holmgren used to be known for letting people score on purpose to get the ball back and avoid the clock. I think it's a smart call in certain situations. PS Overthinking on Nutcan - you can't be serious. Heh.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 10/10/2007 @ 07:56:03 AM
Yea, and it cost us the SUPER BOWL!		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	PackOne - Check yourself before you wriggity wreck yourself. 10/10/2007 @ 11:34:08 AM
Not converting a last minute drive with a bad pass on fourth down cost us the Super Bowl.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings 10/10/2007 @ 12:08:11 PM
I don't think that last score cost the Packers the super bowl. Because they would have kicked a chip shot field goal had the packers stopped them 3 straight times from the 1. I always forget though, that the Packers actually got down to about the 30 yard line on the ensuing drive.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - If you got a problem ... yo i'll solve it. 10/10/2007 @ 12:57:48 PM
That is the truth. The Pack got down to the thirty and on 4th down Travis Jervey dropped a catchable ball that would have given us a first down inside the 20. Stupid Jervey.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Resident Tech Support 10/10/2007 @ 05:50:33 PM
It wasn't Travis Jervey, it was Mark Chmura. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't a dropped pass. Favre was rushed and had to make a quicker than desired throw and Chmura had to dive for it.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 10/10/2007 @ 06:18:14 PM
In either case, both have stellar off the field records.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 10/10/2007 @ 07:44:29 PM
What happened to Jervey off the field?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 10/10/2007 @ 08:28:23 PM
drugs		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Matt - 3941 Posts 10/10/2007 @ 09:55:20 PM
Thank you, no. I'm straight.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 10/11/2007 @ 09:01:52 AM
as they say in Madison, "That's debatable!" sorry, had to		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 10/11/2007 @ 08:57:27 PM
Michael: "I think you're over thinking it" Jim: "I think you're under thinking it"		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 10/11/2007 @ 11:00:10 PM
Scott Wrote - 10/10/2007 @ 05:50:33 PM It wasn't Travis Jervey, it was Mark Chmura. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't a dropped pass. Favre was rushed and had to make a quicker than desired throw and Chmura had to dive for it. Your right but I know Jervey dropped a pass somewhere in that final four plays. John Mobley broke up the Chmura pass on fourth down.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 10/11/2007 @ 11:34:58 PM
I know I remember the Broncos scored 21 points when John Elway pulled off the worlds first 1080° My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire world was destroyed.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this 2 times, last at 10/11/2007 11:37:24 pm

	PackOne - That hypocrite smokes two packs a day. 10/12/2007 @ 10:27:15 AM
I thought the entire world destroyed on Jan 11, 1970 - Jan 13, 1974 - Jan. 12, 1975 and Jan. 9, 1977 ??		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 10/12/2007 @ 10:52:04 AM
A Packer fan talking about the Viking's Superbowl losses? I never thought I'd live to see the day. Edit: I also like how a comment commenting on how overhyped that play was, followed up by a Futurama quote, tripped the Packer fans', "Are they insulting the Packers? I can't tell. Better play it safe and point out they have no Superbowl wins." default reaction to everything ever said by a Viking fan.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this 3 times, last at 10/12/2007 11:18:50 am

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 10/12/2007 @ 12:01:18 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 10/12/2007 @ 10:52:04 AM A Packer fan talking about the Viking's Superbowl losses? I never thought I'd live to see the day. Edit: I also like how a comment commenting on how overhyped that play was, followed up by a Futurama quote, tripped the Packer fans', "Are they insulting the Packers? I can't tell. Better play it safe and point out they have no Superbowl wins." default reaction to everything ever said by a Viking fan. Eternity with nerds. It's the Pasadena Star Trek convention all over again.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.