especially since in that case you're talking about some ancient relic that 15 people probably still actually observe for exactly what it was 2000 years ago.

What do you mean by this?

I think this is the only really important thing to know about the Origins of the Christmas holiday, and the reason it is celebrated as Christmas (all the other things I believe are not important: ie christmas trees, lights, presents, etc). Jesus was born; the Bible tells of a heavenly host of angels singing the glory of this event. If the angels should put on such a display, then why not the Christians who believe this to be their savior? Regardless of the other non-Christian related traditions, Christians long ago started celebrating the Birth of Jesus on December 25th.

The origins of Christmas as we know it to be celebrated I think are relevant mostly to those who cry foul any time someone says "holiday" instead of Christmas. Those who claim that secularists are "stealing Christmas" or whatever they are doing should probably realize that essentially, the Church started Christmas to sort of "steal" a different holiday in the first place. Other than that, there is no reason for Christians to be concerned that Christmas was once something very unChristian, especially because the origins of Christmas were essentially tainted from the very beginning. Taking an event like Jesus birth and making it an encourage part of some debaucherous ritual is a bad way to start a Christian tradition. The fact that over the years Christians have tried to make it more and more about the birth of Christ only makes it more meaningful as they are basically remaking the tradition the way it should have been started from teh very beginning.

The "war on Christmas" isn't about Christmas being taken away. No one is saying "You can't say Merry Christmas in public," people are just pissed that other people aren't saying it enough. At best it's intolerance of tolerance, "Eat shit! How DARE you peons pretend that there is anyone on Earth that doesn't celebrate Christmas!" at worse it's just illogical nonsense

No one is saying "You can't say Merry Christmas in public,"[quote]

Actually, Wal Mart did just that not too long ago. I believe they have since retracted this drecree, but it made headlines a few years ago.

Actually, Wal Mart did just that not too long ago. I believe they have since retracted this drecree, but it made headlines a few years ago.

But now you're being intolerant of people who believe there is a war on Christmas. You're just as bad as them!

Seriously though, I think you're being a bit harsh. For most, it's just a push-back against what is seen as silly and excessive political correctness.

Well Jerm back on your first comment...

b. Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.

The Christian Forefathers (everyone after Christ, it seems) are notorious for stealing details from other religions. It's fact, not fantasy, and it makes a lot of sense to have utilized well-known dates and times. Christianity had to establish itself, and how better than re-associating dates and times and festivals with your new religion?

That doesn't necessarily mean they were lifted, and even if allegories like the flood story were lifted, all that would necessarily mean is that they thought that was still apt.

Actually many parts are directly lifted. If you read the original Hebrew (which I obviously haven't, but am listening to people who have), you can see many words and passages that coincide with the original Babylonian myths. There are actual Hebrew puns in the writing that bridge the divide between the 2 languages. It definitely doesn't make it any less apt. They're all just handed down stories anyway. The Odyssey and the Iliad were passed down orally for hundreds of years before they were written down. I'm sure what we read is a lot different than what was originally told. Either way, I'm still having a Christmas tree and I refuse to hate Jews.

Or, maybe if many cultures and religions tell of a flood, it means that there actually was a flood that covered the whole earth.

Well, like I said, and you joked, if you aren't sitting around celebrating the pagans you aren't having a pagan celebration, it's really that simple.

Or, maybe if many cultures and religions tell of a flood, it means that there actually was a flood that covered the whole earth.

Sure could, though given that they still existed to pass on the story, it's still more likely than not just a good yarn. If you're looking at it as an event that actually happened, suddenly the fact that many previous cultures told stories about their gods flooding the earth at different times and sparing one guy who was forewarned would be pretty troubling, yes? I guess they were all wrong about their gods, but the god of the Bible heard the story one day and thought, "hmm, that's not a bad idea, this time it's for reals bitches! You there, grab some animals, this shit's about to get crazy all up in here."

Or, maybe if many cultures and religions tell of a flood, it means that there actually was a flood that covered the whole earth.

What's the evidence that they were previous cultures and not post-flood cultures that ditched the Noah part of the story but still passed on some version of a flood story? It'd be fairly difficult to have previous cultures if the known world was 20 square miles. .

Or you could believe all the archeological evidence. I get your point, but on this we have physical proof. We also have scientific proof the plagues of Egypt and the escape from Israel could have been naturally occurring phenomena.

It's one account of the stories, told 3 times, not three accounts of the stories.

Most like, Washington would have crossed the Delaware by himself and defeated the British with thunderbolts from his fingertips, emperor style.

Here's the thing with the origins: These are always done in a conspiratorial "open your eyes Sheeple!"

Just for the record, I think the non-supernatural portions of the Bible are fairly accurate