NFL Free Agency

	Alex - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated 02/29/2008 @ 01:00:58 PM
So props to PackOne for breaking the Williams trade to Cleveland. It's probably a good deal long term (assuming Harrell is ready to pick up the slack) but I don't particularly like it from the standpoint of trying to win a Super Bowl next season.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - "That's what I call gettin a piece of Pi" 02/29/2008 @ 01:07:32 PM
With Jolly and Cole coming off injuries, the addition of a backup defensive end, and the progress of Harrell, not to mention Pickett we are loaded. Many feel that Jolly was a superior player to Williams anyway. I like the deal.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
PackOne perfected this at 02/29/2008 1:07:43 pm

	Alex - 3619 Posts 02/29/2008 @ 01:09:43 PM
PackOne Wrote - 02/29/2008 @ 01:07:32 PM With Jolly and Cole coming off injuries, the addition of a backup defensive end, and the progress of Harrell, not to mention Pickett we are loaded. Many feel that Jolly was a superior player to Williams anyway. I like the deal. Well, the key to this comment is that 2 of the 3 guys that will be picking up Williams minutes ARE coming off injuries. That in itself is my concern.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Alex - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 02/29/2008 @ 01:13:39 PM
Congrats Vikings, you just made some guy I've never heard one of the highest paid safeties in the league. But I guess when you have the 32nd passing defense in the NFL it is an upgraded to get a safety from the 26th ranked defense.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - 3619 Posts 02/29/2008 @ 01:17:31 PM
Jerry Porter has to be one of the most consistently overrated players ever, right?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 02/29/2008 @ 01:43:54 PM
If there's one thing the Vikings do well it's working the cap. I have faith that was a fair deal and/or the amount is overly inflated with incentives he'll never get. I hadn't heard [of] him either, but he was a top free agent, apparently. Players just like to brag about the big numbers in their deals. When the Vikings signed Daunte a decent portion of his money was only if he was in on 75% of special teams plays.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 02/29/2008 @ 04:32:31 PM
Javon Walker cut. Thanks for the second round pick. Eff Javon.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 02/29/2008 @ 04:58:11 PM
Corey Williams traded, packers now have 3 picks within the first 60. Rumors are that they will try to trade up for a mid to somewhat early first round pick.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - Make my own decisions. That's my perogative. 02/29/2008 @ 05:04:28 PM
Williams got traded? Newest chatter is the Pack acquiring Jason Taylor for a second.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/01/2008 @ 03:39:45 PM
Berrian to the Vikes. Heh.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - Nutcan.com's kitten expert 03/01/2008 @ 05:28:39 PM
Scott Wrote - 02/29/2008 @ 04:58:11 PM packers now have 3 picks within the first 60. Rumors are that they will try to trade up for a mid to somewhat early first round pick. I dunno, if Moss isn't worth a 5th rounder, I don't wanna know their asking price for picks that high.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - 2079 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 12:06:18 PM
Worthlessburger- 8 more years with the Steelers ($102m)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 02:51:17 PM
Moss gone. Packers visited with former Lion LB Boss Bailey.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 03:05:19 PM
There are rumors floating about Favre made a similar "I want Moss" "threat" in weighing his decision to come back.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - Make my own decisions. That's my perogative. 03/03/2008 @ 03:17:35 PM
Really. Link.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Always thinking of, but never about, the children. 03/03/2008 @ 03:20:45 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3274060&categoryId=2459789&n8pe6c=2 Edit: Though, on second thought, it might be more wild speculation than the headline makes it out to be.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy messed with this at 03/03/2008 3:22:03 pm

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 03:31:53 PM
Loosely interpreted yes. EDIT: Thanks for the link, it started WWIII on my Packer forum. Love it !		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
PackOne perfected this at 03/03/2008 3:53:53 pm

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 05:30:42 PM
You have an odd definition of WWIII.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue. 03/03/2008 @ 06:48:12 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 03/03/2008 @ 03:05:19 PM There are rumors floating about Favre made a similar "I want Moss" "threat" in weighing his decision to come back. You have an odd definition of threat.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 03/03/2008 @ 08:13:48 PM
Moss is such a fool. Pats will not make the Super Bowl this year. They've lost good players and there's no way they can bring the same intensity again all year. He'll be mopey by mid-season. In a way I love him, and in a way I hate him, but the Pats are not a good long term fit for him. Favre needs to make up his mind like now.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/03/2008 @ 08:56:51 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 03/03/2008 @ 05:30:42 PM You have an odd definition of WWIII. I post on one of the more conservative Packer forums. It takes alot to really get people worked up. Brett Favre retiring is like the big red button.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 03/05/2008 @ 01:41:05 PM
I sort of wanted the Vikes to look into Javon Walker. I thought he would be cheap with his behavior on the last couple teams he was on and his injury history. Then this came out: Raiders | Contract update: J. Walker Tue, 4 Mar 2008 20:04:26 -0800 Updating a previous item, ESPN reports Oakland Raiders WR Javon Walker agreed to a six-year deal worth $55 million with more than $16 million in guarantees. He will get about $27 million in the first three years of the deal. So much for that idea.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 03/05/2008 @ 05:26:45 PM
That's a terrible contract for a guy with 3 knee surgeries.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 03/05/2008 @ 05:37:09 PM
9 million a year for a guy who has had 1 legimiate season that was way back in his 2nd season? The Raiders seem desparate. In other news, what does Favre's retirement do for the Packers cap room? They already had about $20 million in cap room, now they just got another 13 or 14 million from Favre. There is no reason why they can't sign about anyone if they want to, right?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - The pig says "My wife is a slut?" 03/05/2008 @ 05:44:07 PM
If anything they'd have less. Edit: I guess they'll gain 11.2 million. I know when players have bailed early on their contracts in the past it counts as "dead money" and anything owed to them in the future gets accelerated forward. I guess as always the Packers get to skirt the rules somehow.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 03/05/2008 5:48:39 pm

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/05/2008 @ 05:47:35 PM
Scott Wrote - 03/05/2008 @ 05:37:09 PM 9 million a year for a guy who has had 1 legimiate season that was way back in his 2nd season? The Raiders seem desparate. In other news, what does Favre's retirement do for the Packers cap room? They already had about $20 million in cap room, now they just got another 13 or 14 million from Favre. There is no reason why they can't sign about anyone if they want to, right? They have more 11.4 million actually. Total cap 29.8 million. EDIT(TM): Condensed PACKERS WILL GAIN AT LEAST $11.4 MILLION IN CAP SPACE The good news for the Green Bay Packers in connection with the retirement of quarterback Brett Favre is that the franchise has picked up $11.4 million in cap space for 2008. Favre's cap number for 2008 is $12.8 million, based on a salary of $12 million and a bonus proration of $800,000. The $800,000 counts regardless of the retirement, but the $12 million instantly comes off the books as soon as Favre files his retirement papers. If the papers are filed before June 1, a 2009 bonus proration of $600,000 will accelerate into 2008, reducing the total cap savings from $12 million to $11.4 million. And given that the Packers currently have $18.4 million in cap space, the official retirement will result in total cap room of $29.8 million, if the retirement comes before June 1.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
PackOne messed with this 3 times, last at 03/05/2008 5:56:17 pm

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 03/05/2008 @ 05:51:23 PM
Well, unless a lot has changed in 24 hours ESPN disagrees with both numbers. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3276391		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - You analyze me. Tend to despise me. You laugh when I stumble and fall. 03/05/2008 @ 06:04:36 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 03/05/2008 @ 05:44:07 PM I guess as always the Packers get to skirt the rules somehow. Actually, it was a great move by a brilliant front office.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - The pig says "My wife is a slut?" 03/05/2008 @ 09:35:56 PM
They forced him into retirement?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 03/05/2008 @ 09:39:54 PM
After only like twelve hours of this, that's all you got left. At least I could still hit Matt with the "son of God" reference. EDIT: No, but they did structure his contract so that when he did retire it didn't kill the franchise. See forty-niners.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
PackOne edited this at 03/05/2008 9:41:11 pm

	Jon - many posts 03/06/2008 @ 04:01:05 AM
Alex Wrote - 03/03/2008 @ 08:13:48 PM Moss is such a fool. Pats will not make the Super Bowl this year. They've lost good players and there's no way they can bring the same intensity again all year. He'll be mopey by mid-season. In a way I love him, and in a way I hate him, but the Pats are not a good long term fit for him. You have an odd definition of long term.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 03/06/2008 @ 01:09:01 PM
Jon Wrote - 03/06/2008 @ 04:01:05 AM Alex Wrote - 03/03/2008 @ 08:13:48 PM Moss is such a fool. Pats will not make the Super Bowl this year. They've lost good players and there's no way they can bring the same intensity again all year. He'll be mopey by mid-season. In a way I love him, and in a way I hate him, but the Pats are not a good long term fit for him. You have an odd definition of long term. A year is a long time for a player.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 1.21 Gigawatts!?!? 04/23/2008 @ 09:23:59 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3362701 A lot to give up maybe, but he's young and those third rounders have an above average chance of not making the team anyway. Allen, Williams, Williams, and WhoCares - I for one Welcome our new Purple People Eater overlords. Of course he's a Viking now, so don't be surprised if he gets a DUI on the way to Minnesota and gets suspended.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 11:45:19 AM
Thanks for building the Chiefs, they are my AFC team.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - Nutcan.com's kitten expert 04/23/2008 @ 12:06:22 PM
Yeah it's a little more than I'd hoped they'd give up, but in my opinion, a lot of NFL people overvalue draft picks. I'm happy to have a "bird in the hand," so to speak. The one thing that is looming over this whole thing is that I feel like now the Vikings are basically set up to win a lot right now, except they have absolutely no passing game. Winning seems to be about windows of opportunity and I feel like the clock is ticking on this window starting now. I mean, I understand they were just ok last year, so maybe it doesn't seem like the winning window was ever even open, but I can't help but notice how we have a lot of guys at their peak or near it and that doesn't last forever. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but even a guy like Adrian Peterson might not be able to be this good very much longer. Obviously we all just assume he'll have a good, normal length career but nothing is guaranteed and runningbacks can't last forever. What a shame that Childress' first moves were to completely tear apart our qb and wr positions. Sure, it led to us being able to get other guys, so you can't just theoretically plug the disposed players into our existing roster, but it will be really crappy if we suck at passing and are quite good in basically every other aspect. Which is what I think we can be. But who knows, I'm no football expert by a long shot. But that's how I see it.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jon screwed with this at 04/23/2008 12:08:33 pm

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 12:30:42 PM
PackOne Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 11:45:19 AM Thanks for building the Chiefs, they are my AFC team. Well, that's going a bit far. The Vikings likely would have, and Chiefs likely will, use that number one pick on a defensive end they hope will be half as good as the one they get/gave up. (See Vikings' Moss/Williamson debacle) As far as I'm concerned the number one pick is a wash, Allen is fairly young, we would have spent that pick on a defensive end anyway. Now lets say, hypothetically, there was some way that you could ensure your number one pick wasn't a bust, or at least a way to dramatically increase the odds he wasn't. Let's say that insurance cost you a third round pick. Wouldn't it be fairly wise to do this in many cases? Otherwise you could spend a high pick to fill a position you need immediately and they could suck. (See Vikings' Moss/Williamson debacle) Wasting a number one pick can set franchises back years, 3rd round picks don't make the team half the time. In my opinion 1st + 3rd is a no brainier. The extra 3rd hurts a bit, but I don't think it's that absurd either. It hardly makes it a Hershal Walker-esq "build a team" trade. As for his contract , there are many people that will come out of this draft with similar numbers having never seen a professional football field.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 04/23/2008 12:32:27 pm

	Alex - 3619 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 12:53:50 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 12:30:42 PM As for his contract , there are many people that will come out of this draft with similar numbers having never seen a professional football field. An influx of blind draftees, aye? Probably not a bad trade, but the Vikings should require that he spend some of that 74 mil on a chauffeur.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 01:09:35 PM
Jeremy you are wrong. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that teams are built in the third. Common knowledge, among sports analysts everywhere. In fact, they were just talking this morning on ESPN on how valuable those third rounders actually are.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 01:12:11 PM
Alex Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 12:53:50 PM Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 12:30:42 PM As for his contract , there are many people that will come out of this draft with similar numbers having never seen a professional football field. An influx of blind draftees, aye? Probably not a bad trade, but the Vikings should require that he spend some of that 74 mil on a chauffeur. I imagine there's some language along those lines. (I mean not that he has a driver, but some sort of "You have to give X back if you get busted again." language. Plus, I assume, like other Viking contracts, it contains lots of accelerators and mumbo-jumbo that in the end wont count toward the cap.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 04/23/2008 @ 04:43:04 PM
Culpepper visiting Packers today		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Cube Phenomenoligist 04/23/2008 @ 04:47:54 PM
Also, according to ESPN due to the Vikings question marks at QB they still have no shot to win the NFC North. I'm not sure they hear what they're saying half the time. (Not to say the Vikes WILL win, and I don't want to spell it out, but just ponder that comment for a moment.)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 04:54:09 PM
Also as a follow up, using the point system the Vikings essentially gave up the 9th overall pick for Allen. That doesn't seem too bad.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 05:06:15 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 04:43:04 PM Culpepper visiting Packers today I'll put it out first, that this probably isn't going to happen.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 05:12:13 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 01:12:11 PM Alex Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 12:53:50 PM Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 12:30:42 PM As for his contract , there are many people that will come out of this draft with similar numbers having never seen a professional football field. An influx of blind draftees, aye? Probably not a bad trade, but the Vikings should require that he spend some of that 74 mil on a chauffeur. I imagine there's some language along those lines. (I mean not that he has a driver, but some sort of "You have to give X back if you get busted again." language. Plus, I assume, like other Viking contracts, it contains lots of accelerators and mumbo-jumbo that in the end wont count toward the cap. Protection. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/vikes-build-some-protection-into-allen-deal/		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/23/2008 @ 05:23:33 PM
I think the difference in approach the Vikings have over what many teams in the free agency era seem to be doing is that the Vikes offer big dollars to their players and pay them upfront when they know they have cap room. Other teams sign players to big contracts where they final year is worth like 30% or more of the overall deal (with no intention of actually paying the player that money.) This hurts the team other teams because even if no one is writing a check for that money after they cut the player (no doubt because they need the money to give to a younger player who has the nerve to not honor his contract and holdout for more) the team has spent it. If a player you pay up front tanks, who cares, the big dollars, and more importantly the cap hit, have been payed out already. Not to mention if I were a player I would want to play for the team that will pay me now, not placate me with large numbers they have no intention of paying me. I think us Viking fans really need to appreciate what Wilf and Co is doing in that they are willing to front the cash, quite literally at their own expense. (Until he moves the franchise to LA, of course.)		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this at 04/23/2008 5:24:49 pm

	Scott - Ma'am, can you make sure your computer is turned on? 04/24/2008 @ 06:11:46 PM
Jeremy Wrote - 04/23/2008 @ 04:43:04 PM Culpepper visiting Packers today I was a day lat on this, as I just posted a link about this.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3447 Posts 04/25/2008 @ 02:50:48 PM
Thoughts on the Vikings trade http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080425&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jon messed with this at 04/25/2008 2:51:42 pm

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/25/2008 @ 03:19:20 PM
If I might take a crack at the "discrepancy" between cutting Koren and signing Allen: First of all, there's no discrepancy at all at this point, they were both multiple offenders and the Vikings "took a chance" and signed them both. Secondly, taking her at the meaning of her point, Koren was beyond help, and got busted again. By all accounts Allen has actually changed his life around, and has been "changed" for quite some time now. I don't know them personally but from what I've gathered Allen was just an irresponsible party animal. Robinson had/has some really deep seated issues, often drinking alone, which indicates he's less likely to ever change. Personally I don't think they should have cut Robinson. This isn't to say the Vikings should have kept Robinson. He had his chance, blew it and deserved his outcome. But by signing Allen the Vikings prove a familiar truism in sports: Principles only apply when someone can't produce. This is just a statement from ignorance or purposefully misleading. Koren Robinson was a pro bowler too and was one of the Vikings biggest weapons, at least potential wise, on offense. Also, just to add this since she hints at the risk the Vikings took but doesn't point this out: As far as a year long NFL suspension goes his slate is wiped clean in September.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy edited this 2 times, last at 04/25/2008 3:24:15 pm

	Carlos44ec - "The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower." 04/25/2008 @ 03:28:29 PM
I just have to say that all the Vikes fans here at work are extremely optimistic of this trade. I even think he could do great things for them.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/25/2008 @ 03:29:55 PM
I couldn't be more excited.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy messed with this 3 times, last at 04/25/2008 3:31:40 pm

	Jon - 3447 Posts 04/25/2008 @ 04:02:56 PM
I think it was a good article. I agree that the term "can't produce" isn't exactly right for the Koren Robinson situation, and it's different since we took in Robinson then he screwed up again. But it's still a little odd to see the two situations play out in the way they have. And Robinson was good, but he wasn't this good. We may not be able to compare the situations directly, because they aren't the same, but I think the article brings up worthwhile points for the overall issues of player conduct and talent and what decisions teams make and all the rest of it. As for Allen, I think it's pretty soon for us to so easily brush aside his past problems, or declare him changed. It might be the case, and I hope it is, but it's hard for anyone to know at this point I think. I mean, I fully believe people's lives can change, but I also believe it's much easier, and more common for people to repeat the same poor choices they've made. It's sad but true and it happens to all of us on some level. So even if he's "changed" by all accounts, it's still more than appropriate to question the whole situation. As the article points out, he's been arrested three times for drunk driving since 2002. It was just last season that he was serving a suspension for his two DUIs in 2006. That's not that long ago. I really don't think her article was all that hard-edged, if that makes sense. I didn't see it as her coming down hard, making a clear judgement about anything specific. It seemed to me more of a way to raise a few points and questions and concerns and point to some instances that show some inconsistency. I liked that because I think it fits the situation well. Questions, concerns, etc. But ultimately we'll see how it plays out.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/25/2008 @ 04:23:47 PM
I know we don't know the future, but the reason for optimism in this case, or at least what makes them different is that there's differences in young immaturity (not to in anyway excuse what Allen did) and a guy who is a bit older, running out of options, and is more apparent that he's just beyond help. They are both stupid, but there's a difference between some dipshit getting drunk with his college age friends on water street and getting behind the wheel and a 50 year old guy who can't not be in a bar, at least in terms of who would you bet money on to clean up their act first. Obviously Allen and Robinson aren't at those extremes, certainly not age wise at least. The general concept of "if you're good you can keep getting chances in sports" is valid, but the only thing that separates her commentary from the other 9,000 people to make that point is using the Vikings over the last couple off seasons, which I think is, at best, flawed.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/26/2008 @ 04:08:35 PM
I'm confused, Detroit didn't pick a wide receiver with their first pick, am I even watching the draft or am I watching some sort of mock draft?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/26/2008 @ 07:36:35 PM
I was kind of thinking we'd take a QB with our first pick.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/27/2008 @ 12:44:34 PM
Why did we just help the Vikings pick up some Booty?		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 2 times.

	Scott - No, I did not change your screen saver settings 04/28/2008 @ 08:03:05 AM
Where's the annual "Call for Thompson's Head" call? The Packer Plus actually thought that the Packers would pick Brian Brohm in the 1st round. Pretty good prediction, I'd say.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose 04/28/2008 @ 12:54:39 PM
I'm not calling for his head, but taking 2 WRs makes little to no sense to me. Otherwise I liked it, assuming they still think Brandon Jackson or Wynn or Morency can contribute somewhat decently.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 04/28/2008 @ 01:04:14 PM
My opinion on the WR situation. Driver is 33 years old, so he is most likely on the eventual decline. Koren Robinson's knee injury from a few years ago may never heal completely, and according to Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal writer Bob McGinn, it may end his career very soon. That leaves Gregg Jennings, James Jones, and Ruvell Martin. At first I questioned why they drafted first at the position where they appeared to be deepest, but then again, they do have some possible questions at WR that they needed to address. The first receiver they got seems like he could be pretty good. Good size and great hands.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/28/2008 @ 01:22:51 PM
They also drafted 2 quarterbacks, that doesn't seem strange to you as well?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - Get Up! Get outta here! Gone! 04/28/2008 @ 02:00:55 PM
1 was in the 7th round.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Alex - Who controls the past now controls the future 04/28/2008 @ 07:50:46 PM
Considering that they haven't signed any other quarterback free agents, that doesn't seem strange. Maybe they end up going with Rodgers and those 2. I guess if you figure that a wide receiver isn't really ready to start until their second or third year the pick makes more sense.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - She's just a woman. Never again. 04/28/2008 @ 09:19:58 PM
I think it was a classic Thompson draft. You can never have enough wide outs, if anything you have them as trade bait. We needed arms in camp, we got them. Don't be surprised to see Shawn Alexander riding the pine soon. Brohm is NFL ready. Best case Rodgers is a stud, worse case we got a Majic man situation. I'll take those odds. We also got DeBauche as an UDFA as well as the kid from Whitewater. Two nice after the facts.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 04/28/2008 @ 10:32:58 PM
Alexander sux.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 1000000 posts (and counting!) 04/28/2008 @ 10:35:02 PM
PackOne Wrote - 04/28/2008 @ 09:19:58 PM I think it was a classic Thompson draft. You can never have enough wide outs, if anything you have them as trade bait. We needed arms in camp, we got them. Don't be surprised to see Shawn Alexander riding the pine soon. Brohm is NFL ready. Best case Rodgers is a stud, worse case we got a Majic man situation. I'll take those odds. We also got DeBauche as an UDFA as well as the kid from Whitewater. Two nice after the facts. Is he better than SHAUN Alexander? Also, worst case scenario is that they are all terribly bad and then, I dunno, an asteroid hits. Something like that. Also, Brian Brohm couldn't carry J.D. Booty's jock. Yeah, I started it.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - Yeah, and you don't stop, 'caus its 1-8-7 on a ... 04/28/2008 @ 11:22:24 PM
Yeah Yeah so I made a typo. Brohm Wonderlic 32 Highest in Draft Booty 14 Not highest. Enough said. Ill observe from google reader for a few days.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3447 Posts 04/28/2008 @ 11:42:22 PM
PackOne Wrote - 04/28/2008 @ 11:22:24 PM Yeah Yeah so I made a typo. Brohm Wonderlic 32 Highest in Draft Booty 14 Not highest. Enough said. Ill observe from google reader for a few days. Not that I'm starting something, because I mostly don't care, but I'm not sure the wonderlic has been shown to have any correlation to nfl success. But if there's a study out there, I'd be interested. Anecdotally, I can remember that Javon Walker scored quite low and people wondered about Vince Young's score too. Walker didn't seem to suffer, except for him not being smart enough to stay on a team for more than a few years at a time. As for Young, I don't know if anyone has or hasn't attributed his shortcomings to "smarts." OK, so I looked quickly and found this study, which I didn't read except for some of the abstract and the conclusion. http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/intelligence-and-football-testing-differentials-collegiate-quarterback-passing-performance-a The conclusion has this morsel: "The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant." and this "This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation." Maybe if I'm inclined, I'll look at the actual methods and numbers behind all that to see if I buy into their conclusions, but it's there for anyone else to look at. edit: It actually uses their rookie year passer rating, which, in my opinion, is a pretty weak indicator of success. So, like a lot of studies, it doesn't really tell us much of anything. And they should, in my opinion, probably use more accurate language to describe what they mean by "success....professional level." Still, I think it's interesting to see someone do a study on this and other factors in the draft. Like most of life though, there are so many variables, I have my doubts on whether they can really control for all of them. And there are such varying standards for what is successful that it'd be hard to make many conclusions. Have we discussed this on this site previously?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jon perfected this at 04/29/2008 12:00:39 am

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 04/28/2008 @ 11:55:39 PM
Still, that's not good. I'm pretty sure Javon Walker's score was a 14 as well and someone making the comment, at the time, that a score of 14 put him at barely literate levels.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	PackOne - 1528 Posts 04/29/2008 @ 08:13:29 AM
You can make anything look statistically signifigant. I would like to know their data size. My guess is that college quarterbacks back up the brunt of that study. Most college QB's don't translate into the NFL, so I imagine the findings are weak. Anyone can chi something and find a relationship. All I am saying is good luck grasping the 200 page playbook anytime soon. Notables: The player data for this study were collected from ESPN.com, various NFL draft prospect websites and official university athletics sites. The data include information on 84 drafted NFL quarterbacks who received rookie year salaries between 1989 and 2004. 1 However, due to the limited public availability of Wonderlic scores prior to 1999, most of the quarterbacks used in this study were drafted in the last six years. Although the test results are not officially released, in recent years the Wonderlic scores have been available on the Internet at NFL.com for many players at the Combine. Salary data were obtained from ESPN.com and USAToday.com between 2001 and 2004 and from USA Today newspaper clippings prior to 2001. Comparing the distribution of the data used in this study to the total current population of NFL quarterbacks, the author finds a similar proportion of non-white quarterbacks (about 20 percent in each), but a slightly higher proportion of Division 1A quarterbacks in the data (89 percent compared to 80 percent). Such comparisons are important as intelligence tests are frequently found to generate sizable ethnic differences, and such biases could affect the results and interpretation of the model if the sample data is not a representative subset of the true population of NFL quarterbacks (FairTest Examiner, 1995).		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	jthompto - 209 Posts 06/25/2008 @ 07:26:02 AM
http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/06/madden-2009-releases-team-and-qb.html Did anyone catch the early player ratings for Madden 2009? I found this the other day. I kind of thought Tavaris Jackson made some improvements last season, but everyone seems to think he sucks because he is currently rated at a 78, making him the worst starter in the league. I know he isn't the best but come on. Apparently Booty is right on his tails with a 77 rating and Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Brohm are already light years ahead of him despite beeing rookies. He is even behind Rex Grossman, Jamarcus Russel, Alex Smith and Josh McCown. I know its only Madden, but I would have thought he atleast should have been in the 80s. He is also behind A-rod who is an 83 for some reason.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Carlos44ec - Since 1980! 06/25/2008 @ 07:46:04 AM
It's just Madden. The Dolphins take it all this year!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9547 Posts 06/25/2008 @ 11:37:09 AM
It's a classic example of potential always outweighing what you know for sure. You "know" T-Jack's weaknesses (albeit after 1 season as a oft-injured starter) You don't know the weaknesses of any of the guys who have never played, so they get "full credit" for any potential they could have. Incidentally, does Tom Brady really deserve a 99 "power arm?" Edit: Also, to address his paragraph above the QB rankings, the Vikings added 3 pretty key players, 1 solid upgrade at safety, 2 significant upgrades, at least in potential, to 2 significant weaknesses from last season. In other words, this isn't last season, and his point that the Redskins beat the Vikings is irrelevant, the Vikings demolished the Giants too, that doesn't mean they should be ranked higher. Also, I hate when people make comments like "when they could have locked up a Playoff spot." as if the Redskins had nothing to play for.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.
Jeremy messed with this at 06/25/2008 11:48:48 am