Draft Day

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 12:12:14 PM
U need to watch more college football then. I'm not sure the Bears needed another running back. Is Minnesota going to stand pat and see if Williams falls to them?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 12:27:07 PM
One more to go. The Titans could definetly take Williams here, but I could also see them taking Rodgers since McNair is always hurt.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 12:39:13 PM
Unbelievable. Of course the Vikings still have to get their pick in on time, something they seem to have problems with. 95 catches, 16 TDS. I think the NFL needs to realign again before next season.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 12:49:55 PM
Foolish.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/23/2005 @ 12:54:11 PM
How pissed r viking fans?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 1000000 posts (and counting!) 04/23/2005 @ 01:16:28 PM
I wanted clarett		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3443 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 01:28:51 PM
You really can't argue with the way Minnesota has drafted for the last three years. So, hopefully they made the right choice again.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/23/2005 @ 01:32:13 PM
ha		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - I don't need to get steady I know just how I feel 04/23/2005 @ 01:45:02 PM
Maybe Rodgers can fall all the way to the Packers. That'd be cool.		Rate this comment Yours: Total: Rated 1 times.

	Jon - 3443 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 01:48:59 PM
The original Longest Yard is good.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jon - 3443 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 01:53:09 PM
Tagliabue is still there at the number thirteen pick? Usually he's gone by the time I wake up.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - But let history remember, that as free men, we chose to make it so! 04/23/2005 @ 02:49:35 PM
I forgot how long this takes.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/23/2005 @ 03:01:00 PM
Erasmus is good. :( Stupid ESPN analysts.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 03:36:15 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO , please no		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 03:46:09 PM
Ok, so let's not try and shoot for a Super Bowl this year.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 04:02:01 PM
Move over you washed up old man....it's my team now. With the 49th selection in the 2005 NFL draft the Minnesota Vikings select Mike Nugent, Kicker - Ohio		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 04/23/2005 @ 04:06:46 PM
If I had the pick I would have picked Williams, but their logic for picking Williamson is sound. Us Viking fans were pissed when they passed on Suggs to get Williams 2 years ago, now he's a probowler. I'll trust them with this. Does the Lions having Rogers, Williams and Williams scare anyone else? If I change my last name to Williams does that give my son a 68% chance to get in the NFL?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - You've got to trust your instinct, and let go of regret 04/23/2005 @ 04:09:17 PM
Why should they? In all seriousness, the Packers don't have nearly a good enough defense to go to the SuperBowl. The year they won the SuperBowl, they had the #1 rated defense. Since then, no #1 rated defense, no SuperBowl wins. I think it's a very rare thing when rookies are the reason that I team gets to the SuperBowl anyway. Teams get to the SuperBowl by acquiring bargain, experienced free agents and having 2nd, 3rd, 4th year players break out. Plus, if you look at the history of the Packers' first round defensive picks, you'll see some flops (Jamal Reynolds, Antwaun Edwards, Vinnie Clark), and a few players with average careers who had some of their best years after leaving the Packers (Vonnie Holliday, Terrell Buckley, Tony Bennett). I don't see a single one though who came in his rookie year and made a big impact. The facts are these: The Vikings should be able to win the division. They have no excuses not to now. The Bears already have one of the best defenses in the league, so if they can score 14 points a game they could make the playoffs. If they can be healthy and have either Harrington or Garcia step up, the Lions have a good, young offensive unit that could put up a lot of points. The Packers have spent the last 5 or so years just trying to fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle to get another championship with Favre at the helm. Sooner or later you need to give up and start a new puzzle. That time is not quite here, but with the resurgence of the rest of the division it's time to start planning for it. I think the Packers will get off to a so-so start, Favre will play the "this is my last year, let's make a run out of it" card around the middle of the season, they'll squeeze into a wild-card spot, upset the Vikings in the dome in the 2nd round, and lose to the Eagles again in Philly.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 04:35:40 PM
Trading away the best receiver in the game is more of an "excuse" than they had last year. I'm torn by the packers pick. On one hand they got a guy who could just as easily been the 1st pick and in a sense got a "steal". On the other hand they used a pick that wont help them at all in the immediate future. Also that means they plan to struggle though the "early" years rather than just pick up a proven vetran. The Bears could be good. As could the lions. Joey has no excuse now. Anyone on this thread could lead that offense now. I read a good point on a Viking board about Williams. Any highlight you see of williams is just him using his size to take a ball from a undertalented CB. He never has seperation. You can't play that game as consistantly in the NFL.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 05:09:49 PM
The Vikings excuse was the defense last year. They've already signed a bunch of guys and drafted some, and when you start the offseason 500 billion below the salary cap you should be able to get anyone you want. I guess I don't really know anything about the guy the Vikings took, but doesn't your point about Williams using his size alot make him sound like he'd be a good redzone guy, which if I recall was the biggest thing you were worried about losing with Moss?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Who controls the past now controls the future 04/23/2005 @ 05:19:28 PM
Another thing about the Packers pick. I don't see how this signifies struggling through the early years by taking a 1st round pick when they know that barring injury, he won't be expected to lead the team for at least 1 year, possibly longer. Also, if every move a team makes only factors in the immediate future, that team will be in the can in 2-3 years. My philosophy on the draft is too focus more on the taking the players who in the total of their careers will contribute the most to your team. Free agency is for filling in holes on your team, the draft is for building the future of your team. Obviously you don't want to overload too much at any specific position, but if all your picks are "need" picks, you're probably screwed already anyway. When you have no proven backup QBs and your starter has been talking retirement for 3 years, and a guy who was a possible #1 overall within the last week falls to you at the 24th position, it's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Who controls the past now controls the future 04/23/2005 @ 05:21:29 PM
Oops, I forgot to state my main point about the Packers. They can still address defensive needs since they have 2 picks in the 2nd round.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:06:17 PM
The packers draft thoughts: If we draft 10 cornerbacks a year, we're bound to find 1 or 2 that can actually play.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:08:11 PM
I think Alex made some comment along the lines of shooting someone or something if the Packers draft another corner in the first 2 rounds. I'm sure he'll show up and clarify that soon.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Pie Racist 04/23/2005 @ 07:09:27 PM
Also I like the packers first pick. I mearly meant that no matter how long Qb's are on the sideline they usually don't step in and have their way with defenses.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:14:33 PM
That corner back is off the top 25 ranked list at scout.com.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:49:03 PM
@#$%@#$%@#$%!#@$$!@#^$&$%$#$#$!!!!!!!!!! Well, at least they didn't screw up their 1st round pick. Here's what I found about the latest high-draft pick CB by the Packers who will most likely suck. "Collins is a developmental prospect with versatility after playing DC and DS in college. He has good size and excellent speed. He also developed into a dominant player at the small-school level. However, Collins is very raw and will need more time than most to make the transition to the NFL" Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y do they keep doing this????? Couldn't they find a lineman, defensive or offensive, that would have been better than this dude?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Ignorance is bliss to those uneducated 04/23/2005 @ 07:50:00 PM
I can think of at least one QB who didn't take long to start winning games :).		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:52:08 PM
I can think of a few, the point is odds are its a struggle for a bit		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/23/2005 @ 07:56:14 PM
There's also about a 50-50 chance for any 1st rounder that he'll never even be a consistent starter. There really are no guarentees in the draft. Never heard of this Terrance Murphy guy either. I still have some confidence in the Packers though because when they took Jevon Walker, they're were at least five other wide receivers ahead of him according to most scouting reports and that has worked out well. Just stop taking CBs already!		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - So's your face 04/23/2005 @ 08:14:53 PM
The Packers do not know how to draft. Suckage		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 04/24/2005 @ 09:58:49 AM
i'm still trying to figure out why the Packers only took 1 defensive player when they had one of the better receiving corps in the league and only the one of the worst defenses. This says a lot of how bad Mike Sherman was at the draft: Green Bay was looking to take any of 3 cornerbacks in the first 3 rounds, in spite of the fact that they took 3 cornerbacks in last years draft. The Vikings will still find a way to lose. Get this: per year, Brett Favre is better in the 2 big categories than Dan Marino; 4 more td's per year, and 216 more yards per year. And for anyone who says that Favre throws too many interceptions (which he probably does to a certain extent) their touchdown-int ratio is almost identical. Just some stats I was looking up.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/24/2005 @ 03:45:05 PM
The Packers have an excellent tandem with Driver and Walker, Ferguson is a decent 3rd when he's healthy, and that's pretty much it. They are by no means deep at receiver and they definitely needed more talent at that position.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Refactor Mercilessly 04/24/2005 @ 05:23:02 PM
I thought Anthony Davis would go a little higher than 243 overall (Indy).		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 04/24/2005 @ 06:11:17 PM
I concur.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 04/24/2005 @ 11:40:54 PM
he had some injury problems in college. He could be a steal, because he's good.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/25/2005 @ 10:16:28 PM
Wisconsin running backs' stock gets hurt by the fact that UW is the denver broncos of the college world. The packers draft was mind bogglingly bad.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 04/26/2005 @ 01:54:56 PM
I wasn't expecting him to go first round. But a guy who at the start of last season was a potential Heisman competitor dropping all the way to the middle of the 7th round? Even Clarett went in the 3rd. I'm not impressed with the Packers draft, but the thing about the draft is it usually takes 3 or 4 years at least before you can really give it a final grade. Plus, I for one am glad that they are considering the future (with their QB and WR picks) and not just playing for 1 more good year. This "Wisconsin running backs' stock gets hurt by the fact that UW is the denver broncos of the college world." leads me to another question. There were 3 Wisconsin O-lineman who were full or part time starters last year that didn't get drafted and only 1 who was drafted. And I think Jim Leonhard will be on someone's roster as a special teamer or possibly kick returner, maybe even a dime package guy.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - No one's gay for Moleman 04/26/2005 @ 05:22:17 PM
That to me is the real mystery. Why O Lineman out of wisconsin arent more highly thought of. The whole "give it 3 to 4 years" thing is flawed though. As a draft it's bad. Nick Barnett panned out, but that didnt change the fact you could have waited an entire round for him, which made it a bad pick. The guy you took with your second round pick was projected to go UNDRAFTED. It doesn't matter if he's the next Ronnie Lott, in terms of drafting thats bad. Also I'm a big "best player available" kind of guy, but as you get to the later picks there's not alot of stuff making one guy better that the other, so you may as well get something that helps you and not, for example, 18 defensive backs and 3 WR.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - I was too weak to give in Too strong to lose 04/26/2005 @ 09:55:03 PM
Well, before the draft they only had 2.5 receivers so that plus 3 = 5.5, still not that many. And I disagree with your draft assessment. If this Nick Collins bum does turn out to be the next Ronnie Lott, then it was a good pick. Yes, it may have been likely that they could have gotten him next round (although they traded away their 3rd round pick, I'm not sure if that was before or after they made this pick), but it was not guarunteed. For all we know Jacksonville might have been thinking of taken him with the next pick. I guess if your definition of a good draft is doing whatever Mel Kiper says, then the Packers did poorly. If these guys turn out to be solid players and other "better" picks turn out to be flops, then I doubt whether the teams that picked those players will take any consolation in the fact that they were "good draft picks" at the time. Scouting players and knowing when to draft them is a little more complicated then polling a bunch of draft gurus and doing whatever they say.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/27/2005 @ 06:54:55 PM
You dont have to do what Mel says verbatim, but the Man knows what he's doing. Bottom line is that if a player is projected to go undrafted by Mel chances are no one else had them two picks after you. Add to it the fact that he's one of 209348394 dbacks tacken the last few drafts and I think it's fair to consider it a poor pick.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - How do you use these things? 04/27/2005 @ 08:28:56 PM
Titletown is not in great shape right now. Walker may be holding out, Green was arrested, and Harris is accused of sexual assault. Add that to the bad draft and well, sorry Favre.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Refactor Mercilessly 04/27/2005 @ 09:43:44 PM
Now with the NFL draft out of the way, it's time to start the NBA regular season (the 82 game preseason is finally over) and another long season of hoping the Brewers can finish at .500.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - 6225 Posts 04/27/2005 @ 10:37:56 PM
I believe the CB/S you are referring to was predicted by many to go in the 4th or 5th round, that's what I found anyway. And I agree with both about what makes a good draft. If a "good draft Pick" flops (ryan leaf), that was not a good pick. If a "bad draft pick" (can't think of any) becomes a hall of famer, explain to me how that was a bad pick? Maybe it was a questionable pick, but who cares. Not me. Aaron Rodgers will take over hopefully when Driver and Walker are seasoned, experienced veterans and will take over with better receivers than Favre ever had. Oh, and Aaron's last name does indeed have a d in it. Lame.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - I'm on a boat! Everybody look at me cause I'm sailing on a boat! 04/28/2005 @ 09:40:29 AM
Cris Carter is currently (and has been for a while) training Mike Williams to be....the next Cris Carter. Here's to a healthy Lions receiving corp. Regardless of defensive free agent signings and draft picks, I am really hoping for a Vikings-Lions matchup with fully healthy offenses. 72-62 Lions		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Micah - Shaken not stirred gets you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth 04/28/2005 @ 09:49:10 AM
At least the packers didn't take a kicker in the 2nd round like they usually do. And to break up sports talk, I found this on a website and thought I would up your hippie/computer humor for the day. "For more details, check the Bonnaroo website. It takes forever to load, probably because of all the hits it takes."		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 04/28/2005 @ 07:11:46 PM
I might be able to go to the Patriots-Packers preseason game at Lambeau. Tom Bradylicious vs Favre the man. In person. sweet.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/28/2005 @ 07:38:07 PM
I'm talking just in terms of a draft, if you can get the player you want AND other higher prospects then why wouldn't you do that? Got only knows what future probowler you potentially pass up to get a guy no one else wants. Barnett panned out but you could have picked up a fourth rounder to use to trade up for a water boy or a second punter, then gotten Barnett anyway. This guy may pan out but you could have gotten a "better value" pick, and gotten him later, or gotten another pick to shore up that piss poor defense of yours. Again, just talking in terms of value and not "hindsight is 20-20" it was a bad draft. It's pretty much moot anyway. For example the Vikings took another dlineman right before Sapp was taken. Derrick Alexander I think. Probobly not even in the league anymore. In hindsight they might like a do over, but who's to say Sapp would have panned out in Minnesota? Maybe certain players pan out becouse of where they are placed, not because of talent. Mike Williams might have 10 times the career Williamson has, but whos to say it's not because he has 2 field stretchers on his team and wouldn't have sucked in Minnesota. My point, as always, is I don't have one.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 04/28/2005 @ 08:37:47 PM
http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Sarah - 4671 Posts 05/03/2005 @ 07:53:53 PM
Playoff tickets: $90 Preaseason tickets: $90 Hmm... same thing, oh well it's sooo worth it. Favre's pretty pissed at Walker. Favre talkin' smack		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. 05/04/2005 @ 11:25:47 PM
Now there's a man with class. He can tell it like it is without alienating his team. He says what he has to say, but when it comes down to it, he will still look you in the eye and have all the confidence in the world that when you step out onto that field, you will bring your best game. I'm with Favre on this one. I hate it when players hold out. What happened to the last Packer to do this? Doresy Levens, and that was after an average season. He didn't last more than about 4 games that season, and then he was pretty much gone. HONOR THE CONTRACT people. Not just walker, but everyone. Housing contracts, marriage contracts, contractions in the middle of a sentence, you get the idea. Switching gears, the Brewers have won 6 straight and are now officially the hottest team in baseball.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - 9543 Posts 05/05/2005 @ 02:20:43 AM
The Packers can cut Javon at anytime and he doesn't get squat. Teams break out of contacts all the time. Why should a contract only mean something if you're a player?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - Who controls the past now controls the future 05/05/2005 @ 01:28:37 PM
Lyle Overbay - 1st in the majors in OBP at .509, 3rd in OPS 1.168 Brewers are back to .500 and leading in there game today.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Scott - You're going to have to call your hardware guy. It's not a software issue. 05/05/2005 @ 10:47:15 PM
Darren Sharper is losing respect in my book. Why would the words of possibly one of the best football players of all time not carry any weight when talking about a player on his own team. If I was on a team and one of my teammates was pulling something like that, I would respect my team leader for stepping up and saying something. Brewers have won 7 straight.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	Jeremy - Robots don't say 'ye' 05/09/2005 @ 11:30:47 AM
Scott next time a co worker wants a raise stand up, be a leader, and explain to management how they could just as easily fire that person, because they're unneeded and see how much respect you get. Favre badly off target - again By Michael Felger/ NFL Notes Sunday, May 8, 2005 Everyone knows Brett Favre is an employee of the Packers, but no one knew until last week that he is actually a member of team management, too. How else to explain his commentary on the contract dispute of teammate Javon Walker, who skipped a recent Packers minicamp and is threatening to hold out the season unless his contract is renegotiated? ``Whatever happened to the team concept?'' Favre told the Green Bay Press Gazette, adding that if the receiver doesn't change his stance, ``I'd just as soon go without him. . . . We can win without him.'' The comments played well in Wisconsin and across the league, where Favre's legend remains unchecked and there's little sympathy for players who demand more money after one good season. Walker's 2004 Pro Bowl berth was his first. The remarks won't play well in the Green Bay locker room. It's virtually unheard of for players to take the side of management against fellow players, at least on teams that are functioning properly. Did any Patriots [stats, news] player ever criticize Lawyer Milloy [news] during his salary dispute in 2003? Did anyone oppose Ty Law [news] in the 2004 offseason, even though he was clearly out of line? The answer is no, because Pats players stick together. They supported Milloy (especially quarterback Tom Brady [news]) and stood by Law. That's the way it works. But not in Green Bay. Making it worse for Favre is the fact he's no longer in a position to talk about what does or doesn't win games. Since 1998, Mike Holmgren's last year as Packers head coach, Favre has started seven playoff games and won just two, throwing 16 interceptions (against 11 touchdowns) in the process. In his past two divisional-round playoff contests, Favre gave away a game in St. Louis with six interceptions and handed another to the Eagles with a pick on the first series of overtime. Favre's latest playoff appearance, against the Vikings and their 29th-ranked defense last January in Green Bay, resulted in four interceptions and a 31-17 loss. It seems the myth of Brett Favre has obscured the reality. Everyone believes he's infallible at Lambeau Field, even though he's actually lost eight games there the past two years. Everyone believes he's unstoppable in cold weather, even though two of his last three playoff exits came at home against dome teams. Everyone is sure that, with 225 consecutive starts, no one is tougher, even though Favre so routinely shies away from contact that he'll unload the ball anywhere, anytime. Meanwhile, while Favre was criticizing Walker for sitting out camp, he was back home in Mississippi skipping the workouts himself. To be fair, coach Mike Sherman suggested that Favre stay home, and he accepted the offer. Over the past 18 months, Favre has lost his father and brother-in-law while his wife has been diagnosed with breast cancer. No one would dispute the courage Favre has shown coming back from his personal tribulations. Still, the fact remains that Favre has shown increasingly more passion for his back yard than the film rooms and practice bubbles in Green Bay. He is a good guy and a fun player to watch. He'll be a first-ballot Hall of Fame selection But for those who choose to separate myth from reality, one question emerges: Instead of worrying about Walker's contract, shouldn't Favre worry about himself?		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbizzle - 3619 Posts 05/09/2005 @ 10:15:48 PM
I don't have a real strong stance on this, but I feel the need to deposit my 2 cents in the hope that they may someday accrue interest. Should Favre be talking about this to the media? Probably not. Yet, while this guy is willing to say that Favre should mind his own business, superstars that don't like to talk the media and never say things they shouldn't usually end up being portrayed as kranky stiffs. I don't think Favre called a press conference so he could trash-talk Walker. I could care less what Favre says, I just want to see this thing resolved and Walker back for the preseason. That being said, my own personal level of annoyedness with the never-ending Favre and media honeymoon has been steadily increasing over the last 2 or 3 seasons. Chris Berman has become especially annoying. However, I will need to disagree with this Michael Felger chump on some of his other points. I will not blame Favre for the Eagles interception game. That game should have never reached overtime. With the whole home-field and cold weather thing, obviously if you look at the wins and losses it's not what it used to be. But I don't blame anyone who roots for the Packers for trying to keep the myth alive as a propaganda tool. Favre has become quite a wuss as far as taking hits goes, but can you honestly think of any quarterbacks his age who willingly take hits? At some age it becomes better for the team for a still talented QB to throw it away instead of taking a pounding for a 2 yard gain. Of course this still does not excuse one of the stupidest plays ever where he threw the ball away for a penalty when he had a decent chance to run it in.		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.

	icbeast - 3619 Posts 05/11/2005 @ 02:09:32 PM
"The Original Whizzinator"		Rate this comment Yours: Rated 0 times.